Television Interview - Sky News Newsday
The Voice will fix a broken system, Peter Dutton's calls for a second referendum, Rob Stokes' potential candidacy for Mackellar, the Nationals can't make up their mind on Net Zero, renewable energy and the transition away from coal.
TOM CONNELL, HOST: It's the time of the week I look forward to. I'm sure some of you do at home as well. It's time for Falinski/Gorman. It is the Assistant Minister for the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, whose career has gone from strength to strength since he started on this panel and then former MP Jason Falinski -
JASON FALINSKI, NSW LIBERAL PARTY PRESIDENT: - Yeah, since he got rid of me!
CONNELL: Yeah, well, the NSW Liberal Party President. I'll give you your current title, Jason, whose career should have but it still is. It's trending up. Patrick, I might start with you. The writ is issued on the referendum. The polls are just so dire. It's done, isn't? Can't win from here?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: I never prejudge the decisions of the Australian people and I'm not someone who ever gives up. I'm someone who actually gets out there and campaigns. That's what I was doing this weekend, doorknocking in Mount Hawthorn, we've got 544 volunteers in the Perth electorate alone. This is going to be an important conversation that the Australian people have over the next five weeks. What I know from people I've been talking to, is that there is interest in this proposal and there is interest in making sure that we do finally Respond to the Uluru Statement From the Heart.
CONNELL: I should mention, by the way, the writ hasn't been issued yet. Got that bit wrong. I should know that it's being issued today, but I keep hearing, 'oh, I'm getting positive vibes.' You're not talking to the right people. Because the opinion polls are saying one thing, that this thing is drowning in lack of support. Don't you need to be talking to people who are saying, 'I've got a problem with this,' and turning them around?
GORMAN: I talk to those people. I talk to people who support it, talk to people who genuinely have a very open mind about this proposal. And what I say to people is really simple. We all know the current system is broken. The Voice, constitutional recognition, is our best chance to fix it. And nothing I've seen from anyone in the No campaign puts forward a better proposal to fix a broken system. And we know that so clearly. We have gaps that are not closing. We have policy responses that are not working. The Voice will give us that chance. And this is a moment to bring Australians together, to finally get constitutional recognition. It's been on the agenda for so long. This is the chance to get it done. And again, five weeks to go. The Australian people get to decide what goes in our Constitution and I remain very optimistic about what the outcome will be on the 14th of October.
CONNELL: I guess we had one thing, Jason; Peter Dutton saying there'd be another referendum if he wins power, on just recognition in the Constitution. Is that a Liberal Party position or a good old-fashioned captain's call?
FALINSKI: No, that's been the Liberal Party's position since 1999. Tom, I know you would remember, as would Pat, that in 99, when we were voting on Australia becoming a republic, that one of the other questions was whether we changed the Preamble to the Constitution to recognise the role that Indigenous Australians have played both in our nation and in this continent. And I want to also say that a week doesn't go by when Pat doesn't miss the chance to remind us all that he was out doorknocking in his community and I really appreciate the opportunity that you give him to tell Australians that.
CONNELL: Sorry, what am I meant to say? No? I'm confused. What's your issue, Jason?
GORMAN: I'm happy to have a Sky crew come down. They can get the video evidence.
FALINSKI: The important thing is - that's right. Pat's out there every week, knocking on people's doors. The people of Perth should be wary that there's Pat lurking out in their street.
GORMAN: I don't know what happened for you, Jason, but in my community, when I knock on their doors, which I have been doing most weekends, as you politely pointed out -
FALINSKI: I know, you tell us every week!
GORMAN: - people are quite happy to see their local Member having a chat.
CONNELL: This is perfectly placed, Jason. This is what you used to doorknock in, The Jason Falinski For the Beaches. Is the next hat of this going to be Rob Stokes For the Beaches? I mean, maybe he needs his own slogan. Is he the next Liberal candidate? Would he do a good job?
FALINSKI: No, I'm very happy to licence him that slogan. Pat can probably come up with a better version of that, but nonetheless, if he has to fall back on one, that's fine by me. Look, I think what we're seeing in NSW is a flailing and failing Minns Government that reminds us of the late stages of the Carr Government. This is driving Labor support in NSW through the floor, and you're seeing a lot of people coming forward to take on the Left, whether they be red, green or Teal in NSW. And quality candidates like Rob Stokes are going to make a huge difference. But, Tom, last week you had Sophie Scamps on this programme and she said that she'd happily entertain the idea of Capital Gains Tax on the family home. So, with ideas like that, I wouldn't be surprised if more than just one person puts their name forward for Mackellar.
CONNELL: Maybe we need a tally. Every time Patrick mentions doorknocking and you mention a Teal MP, we'll get a little thing up on the screen. Rob's watching. You can come by and grab the hat.
FALINSKI: Oh, that's unfair, I can't keep up!
CONNELL: You can see the design. See if you want to get it going, Rob. There is a bit of newsprint on it. It's been sitting in the bottom of the desk. Anyway, you alluded to the energy situation. I want to ask you about this, Patrick. What do you make of NSW? Now looking at extending the lifetime of the biggest coal-fired plant in the state. Is this the reality that the renewables transition is pretty clunky at the moment at best?
GORMAN: Well, I think if you were to look at how would you get Australia to transition to Net Zero by 2050 and how do we get more renewables into our grid, we obviously wouldn't start here. And where we start in this conversation is after ten years of policy inaction from Jason and his friends when they were last in government. What we are seeking to do as the Commonwealth Government is to make sure that we get the policy design right. NSW has challenges that they have to deal with in the short term, but for the long term we want to get the transmission infrastructure and we're investing in that across the country, including a $3 billion agreement with the Cook Labor Government in Western Australia so we can put more renewables in.
CONNELL: But the medium term is big as well. Eraring is not short term, it's sort of medium term. Do you need to be more wary of not having a situation where that rewiring you talk about of the grid, which needs to happen at some point, doesn't kick in until it's too late? Do you see that as your first order of business - keeping the lights on?
GORMAN: Well, of course. We've taken action both to make sure that we have a stable and secure grid, but also that we have an affordable energy supply for households. We did took action on that when it comes to affordability last year in the Parliament, which some of your viewers might remember, indeed even Peter Dutton, the Liberal Party voted against that cheaper power bill policy that we put through, without any help from them -
CONNELL: - aren't worried about the supply, which might home to roost.
GORMAN: And what we know is that as we need to add supply because it's not just about making sure we've got supply for today, but it's also acknowledging that we are going to rely more and more on electricity over the years ahead.
CONNELL: You support what you've heard about NSW around extending coal. Is that sort of in-keeping with what you think the best renewable plan is and transition for Australia?
GORMAN: I respect that state governments need to make those short term decisions to make sure they can keep their grids stable. I think about the requirements we have in Western Australia for keeping our grid stable.
CONNELL: You're separate though?
GORMAN: Yeah, we are. We're on the South West Integrated System, and that relies in part on coal fired power generation. There's a long term plan to shift that to primarily renewables with some gas peaking. That's the transition we're going through at the moment.
CONNELL: Sorry, I'm running out of time a little bit. Jason, just on an element of this as well -
FALINSKI: Tom, you should make more time for this panel!
GORMAN: Here, here!
CONNELL: Well, yeah, you get longer than most. I already get in trouble as it is.
FALINSKI: Well, clearly we need more!
CONNELL: People will be watching this and saying 'how long has been going on?' Yeah, well, we'll see.
FALINSKI: 5 years!
CONNELL: I'll do my best on it.
GORMAN: Jason, give the three of us an hour after 6pm.
CONNELL: Okay. All right. There's a bold call.
FALINSKI: An hour, that's true.
CONNELL: If I may just interrupt the friendly banter with a question.
FALINSKI: If you must.
CONNELL: Jason, what did you make of the Nats? And now this has come after their conference over the weekend. So, they say the current process for approvals of major renewable energy projects are not exhaustive enough. Is that right? Is that going to help the overall energy supply?
FALINSKI: Look, Tom, if I could humbly suggest I think that our approval processes for all energy projects are too exhaustive in Australia. I'm diametrically opposed to what the National Party is saying on this, to be blunt. I'm surprised to hear the National Party even making that argument.
CONNELL: Okay, so you just disagree with that? Is this just their way of saying we can't blow up Net Zero, we'll do this instead?
FALINSKI: Well, you'd have to ask them that. I hope not, is the truth, and to be fair to the National Party, they did have a motion to reverse out of Net Zero, and the overwhelming majority of National Party members actually said, 'No, we are committed to Net Zero.' So I think you're being unfairly cynical there, but, yeah -
GORMAN: - they decided they had to come up with something else crazy instead.
FALINSKI: Sorry. What we saw was Patrick, that's unfair -
GORMAN: - after rejecting the rejection on Net Zero.
CONNELL: All right, just if I can give you a final one on this area. Jason so, Eraring; isn't Matt Kean opposed to extending it and the Liberal Party in general?
FALINSKI: I think Matt Kean's point is that the Labor Party in NSW, which is just doing a horrible job, you know, claim that they have to do this because we're running out of power. And Matt Kean's point is: where? Nothing in front of this government or the previous government demonstrates that we're running of power in NSW. So, here you have it -
CONNELL: - so shut it down, then?
FALINSKI: - NSW Labor's Transition to a renewable future is via coal.
CONNELL: - so shut it down, then?
FALINSKI: Well, if it's not well, if it's not, I mean, Matt Kean's point is that it's not economical to keep doing this. I mean, Tom, I know you're going to cut me off here, but let us not forget that this government, the Greens and the Teals, voted to give $950 million to the most profitable coal companies in the world. Now, the reason they're doing that is because their transition, Chris Bowen's magical joy ride of transition to a renewable future, isn't working. And that's the issue, that if I may humbly suggest, the Canberra Press Gallery should start focusing on.
CONNELL: You've got a decent amount of time. I didn't even cut you off. It was the AEMO report. They cited the Labor Party. Patrick I got Jason to have an opinion in the end.
FALINSKI: No, I'm sorry. Tom, I have to point out that that AEMO report and the CSIRO report. Both the intergen sorry, the Gen report and the ISP report has now been absolutely demolished. They didn't include transmission costs, and they said that those transmission costs were sunken costs. And that's why no one is now taking those reports seriously. Except for Simon Holmes-a-Court, of course.
CONNELL: Patrick, to round this off, do you actually have a view on what NSW Labor is doing here?
GORMAN: I accept that state governments will need to make decisions in their immediate interest as we make this long term transition to renewable. What I've got to say, though, on the National Party and their sort of 'Net Zero/no Net Zero,' is that we've now got David Littleproud as Leader of the National Party going around saying that his Net Zero was different to Net Zero under Labor, that he supports one type of Net Zero, but not another type of Net Zero. It's a very confusing argument. Zero emissions by 2050 is zero emissions by 2050.
CONNELL: There are a lot of ways to get there, which is all I'll say on that. Patrick, Jason, we're gone well over time. I hope you're both happy. I'll probably have my pay docked, so I'll talk to you maybe in a fortnight. Maybe not.